Tuesday, July 05, 2005

Sex or long term relationship?

This is my reply to espion, in response to his comments to my earlier post.

I hate it when someone accuses or generalises. Or pretend he understands me when he doesn't.

First of all, your definition of love is different – agape or divine love, defined as self-sacrificing love; charitable, selfless, altruistic, and unconditional.

It must be pointed out that this kind of love is difficult to achieve. And that kind of love is different from passionate love or eros.

I believe what you have written is better articulated here, in your blog.

Still, I find your accusations interesting, though quite unfounded.

Are you saying that straight guys date girls just to have sex? Finding a life partner is not part of the agenda?

And even if they do, it doesn’t apply to us? Gay people do not look for a long term partner?

That is indeed a very prejudiced and cynical view.

As for me, I am a practical person. If I had wanted sex, I would not go through all that trouble of a relationship. ONS is so much easier and less of a hassle.

I never had sex with YF. When we broke up, do you think that I was heartbroken because I never got laid, or more because of emotional attachment and the dependency of being cared for and loved?

In addition, I suppose that many people equate sex with love. Even I do. People seek love, but how do you show love? Lovey-dovey words and chocolate or a diamond ring are never enough.

What is considered the ultimate act of love between two people? Sex.

It is true that sex is no longer sacred in this day and age. But how many people actually try to ascertain and analyse that what he feels, is actually love and not lust or infatuation, before having sex?

How many, when in the heat of the moment, consider that he might regret it afterwards?

Just like your example, it is so easy to succumb to sexual desires. Especially when both persons are heavily groping and kissing. That is only human.

Truer still if both are males. It is biology.

However, this does not negate the fact that one, or both of them, may have wanted something more. It doesn’t mean that they forgot about searching for the right one.

If not, why would there be breakups? Exactly because they have not found the right one and thus continue searching.

A reality of many gay relationships are the short live spans. Or as you called it, ‘extended ONS or sex-buddies’.

Just because they have sex and then break up doesn’t diminish the fact that there might be something deeper between the two.

According to Stenberg,

'Consummate love is the only type of love that includes all three components--intimacy, passion and commitment. Consummate love is the most complete form of love, and it represents the ideal love relationship for which many people strive but which apparently few achieve. Sternberg cautions that maintaining a consummate love may be even harder than achieving it. He stresses the importance of translating the components of love into action. "Without expression," he warns, "even the greatest of loves can die"

So if, for now, you are with someone who cares and loves you and you believe that you have gotten that someone special, sex is almost inevitable.

Unless you are really cynical, you can think that they actually go through the process of finding someone and the whole relationship thing so that there really is something deeper, thus they feel better when they have sex.

I beg to differ. I believe there are people seeking for the bigger picture, that someone special. The destination, so to speak. Including me.

Along the way, the people that they thought are the one and thus have sex with; that is the journey.

Sex is an ingredient of a romantic relationship (Stenberg’s Triangular Theory of Love) Surely, having sex in a one month old relationship doesn’t negate the fact that some people are searching for a LTR.

Or perhaps you think that long term means something like three years, after which you can have sex?

It’s like shopping. Let's say I was looking for the perfect shirt. I see something I like. I would then feel the fabric and look closer at the design. Then I stand in front of the mirror and put the shirt in front of me to gauge whether it fits or matches.

If I think it does, of course then I try it on. This is analogous to having sex. Surely, trying on is part of the process. The shirt might look good in front of the mirror, but nothing beats trying it on for yourself.

Sex is not the most important part in a relationship, but it is still essential.

But if someone is looking for sex only, why even bother with getting a closer look? Wouldn’t he just grab the shirt and go straight to the fitting room?

When someone starts saying you can love someone without consummating it, I think that is highly doubtful. That is not romantic love. The desire to have sex with the person you love is part and parcel of being human.

You said it best with 'So when I hear some gay says he is seeking LTR, I never assumed that he seeks love, or, conversely, to presume he seeks sex, in an acceptable context, and/or companionship, until and unless proven otherwise.'

Then why did you make that mistake?


Espion said...

The love I am talking about is not Agape, but Eros, the love which justifies sex, and is the reason for sex.

So basically there is sex and there is sex: Sex as expression of Eros, or Sex for its own sake.

I think I may have send you some stuff I wrote earlier on 'What is Gay Sex?' where I explained what I know Eros to be. As I would rate it XXX I wont post it to my blog.

Spot said...

"It does not need mutuality nor gratification of any sort, physical or otherwise."

THAT was meant to mean Eros?

Espion said...

To spot, what I wrote about Eros is not in that blog you quoted from. Give me your email and I can send it to you.

Spot said...

espoin - it's ok, thank you anyway.

pluboy@takashi said...

i need time to digest this particular blog.. hving juz too many things.. stuffed into one.. haha.. need time to apprehend wat u're trying to say :P